By: Umunna Kalu

Chief Bode George, former military governor, and a former Deputy National Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP).in  this interview, speaks on the recent #EndBadGovernance protest across the country, fuel subsidy controversy and ethnic profiling in Lagos under #IgboMustGo, among other contending issues.

Excerpts

There’s been this back-and-forth talk on fuel subsidy. Is it still being paid, and if not, why or who is not telling Nigerians the truth?

Personally,  I’ve been so miffed about what is going on in this particular industry. On one side, you hear the fuel subsidy is still there. On the other hand, you hear that there’s no subsidy. And the gentleman who was talking and trying to explain has further confused me.

At my level, with the education I have, and my experience in this country, I can’t understand what he was saying. Now, who is telling the truth? The Nigerian National Petroleum Corporation Limited (NNPCL) is owned by the Federal Government, which means it is owned by all Nigerians.

We want to know what exactly is going on there. I’m not in that field of operation, but I have enough education to listen to A and listen to B, and then conclude in my mind, that if there is a need to support the operations or the policies of the government, we will.

And if there are shortfalls in what they’re producing or telling us; nobody has a monopoly on knowledge, let’s share experience. Let’s tell ourselves the home truth. I’m more confused because first, why did we go back to re-energize a refinery that was built in the 60s, dumping so much money into it? You know, I’m an engineer by profession. It’s like you have a car that you bought in the 60s.

This is 2024, you want to now reform it. It’s like trying to redesign an old man at 80 or 90, so that he can be ready for a 100-metre race. How is that possible? The technology at that time was purely analog compared to the digital system now that we are running. So, I’m very confused. And if I’m confused, many other Nigerians are confused too.

Now, I ask myself, who is the Minister of Petroleum? The President! Who is the chairman of the NNPCL? Now, there’s the other gentleman, the Minister of State, Heineken Lokpobiri, from Bayelsa. Yes, they don’t own it. It’s not a personal enterprise, and it’s not a private enterprise.

It’s owned by all Nigerians. We want to know the truth. What is going on there? Then, Aliko Dangote has his own refinery. I remember when President Muhammadu Buhari went there to commission that refinery; we were told that the Nigerian government has 51 per cent of it.

Recently, Dangote said we were supposed to have done certain things which we didn’t do, therefore, our shareholding has been reduced to seven per cent. Time is running out, people are hungry, and people are therefore angry. This major source of income for this country is in dire straits.

What are we going to do? Let them tell us the truth for God’s sake. You know what further bothered me was the fact that last week, they issued a statement that we’ll sell the crude to Dangote in Naira.

What is the major source of income for our treasury? It’s crude oil. So, the mismanagement of that crude oil has led to lots of losses. And that’s why this nation looks like a major capital country drifting into the abyss.

It’s better to teach the people how to fish rather than spending all that money buying palliatives for over 200 million people.

You have made a very valid point but you’re in good terms with the President now and you still talk on the phone; when was the last time you spoke to him…?

(Cuts in) No, you don’t talk to him on the phone.

We thought after the Chief of Staff to the President, Femi Gbajabiamila came to beg, everything has settled…?

Yeah, it settled. But we’re not enemies. We’ve physically met maybe about once or twice, one time at the burial of this gentleman in Ibadan.

And I think that’s the only time we physically met. But occasionally, when I feel very concerned about certain policies because now they have come to say, please, we’re sorry about what happened.

I said that I’m not God. But if I have anything, I’ll call Gbajabiamila or one of the other people that I know there and say: Look, you guys, be careful in this or that area.

Have you at any time called Gbajabiamila and ask if he can be honest to tell Nigerians if government is paying for subsidy or not?

And also, can they be honest enough to tell us why is it that NNPCL which is supposed to be making money for Nigeria has become Nigeria’s money-borrowing device?

I’ve been out of this country for about six weeks and I just came back. I came back this week, so I’m fresh and green. And when you’re out of the box, you see it better.

You listen to even the international voices, their comments and perceptions about our nation. And as I landed, there were stories about NNPC, we’re going to borrow, the subsidy is there, it’s removed. So, I got quite interested to say, look, I thought we were in one direction, just to release the pain from the people.

So, as you have advised, I will call Gbajabiamila. People are interested in the truth. If we know exactly where we are, that will define the problems we have. Then we can all be convinced and put all our energy into trying to support them to resolve the problems. The issue of palliatives doesn’t make any economic sense to me. Look, teach people how to fish, rather than giving them fish.

How many times are you going to keep buying rice and supplying rice? Some of those palliatives are so bad. There are other issues or ways you can positively impact people; microcredit, a very low interest rate, special rates for farmers. You can buy fertilizers to support them for production.

If it’s just merely consumption you are looking at, then I don’t know the voodoo economists that are there advising the President. So, as you said, I’ll call Gbajabiamila and I will tell him my mind. And that’s why when we had a party meeting in Lagos, we all resolved that I must speak to the people. But I’ll try to call him and tell him my mind.

Are we ready for the unintended consequences that may follow if the truth is to be told, which is that subsidy exists, and the commitments, the contracts, the loans, the dollars that have come in from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and the World Bank into this economy based on the promise that subsidy would be removed? That’s one scenario. The other scenario is, are we ready for a scenario where the government says, okay, the subsidy is truly completely removed, and we see PMS more than doubling in price?

That is why you have a government. A government in a democracy listens to the base. Like those who protested recently; all those activities were supposed to be a feedback on the policies of the government.

Of course, some rascals tried to intervene to create mayhem and all that but I believe when I heard the comments and the response by the President that he has heard, I was happy about what he said, that he has heard Nigerians.

But the solutions that he has proffered will further land us in an intensive care unit. He’s not giving solutions that are going to be palatable or acceptable to the people of this country. They need to go back to their drawing board and re-assess it.

It’s better to teach the people how to fish rather than spending all that money buying palliatives for over 200 million people. It’s a digital world; try and give microcredits to the farmers. Farmers are known in those areas where they do production. In another six to nine months from now, there’ll be so much production that the competition will lower the prices among the farmers.

But the way we’re going, you go and buy this or you appeal to this or you appeal to that, that’s mundane. So, it’s the approach now. Everybody has accepted that something has gone wrong, including the presidency. We don’t even know the Minister of Information. That should be the voice of the government. We don’t hear anything from him.

Let’s talk about the protests. What are your thoughts on it; the state of the nation, the fact that people are coming out to protest hardship and hunger in the land. The northern leaders recently made a statement that for the government to communicate what they’re saying by action, they should cut off foreign trips. They should say no to estacodes. Do you agree with this?

Should there be cuts in the spending of the government?

You know that once you have a major financial crisis and inflation is running dangerously too high, the government must sit down and find solutions to put a smile on the faces of Nigerians.

Part of democracy is the reaction, the feedback to the government on its policies. If people decide that, look, they’re not satisfied; they want to go on a protest, why not? It’s part of their constitutional right. But the way it was managed in certain states calls for question. But the government shouldn’t deter people from exercising their rights.

It’s feedback aside from the ministries that will come back and give you all those permanent secretaries, directors, civil servants and those in the legislative arms who should visit their constituencies to get feedback. It’s necessary. We’re not in a military government. So, I supported the fact that people should go out peacefully to tell the government why they’re not happy.

It’s feedback, and when you get the feedback, it’s incumbent on you to go back to your drawing board and revisit your policies because power in a democracy comes from the base. It comes from the people. It is unlike the military, that power comes from the top. So, I completely supported the idea that they have now listened to the people. The President accepted that now we have heard you; we would now go back and try to find a solution.

Now, this other issue of subsidy or no subsidy, I don’t know who is telling the truth. In one breath you hear there’s a subsidy. In another breath, you hear there’s no subsidy. Oh, it is the IMF or the World Bank or this. Let us know the truth for God’s sake. It’s our fundamental right. And if you want to tell the people, if they know the truth, they will also think, we should support you to succeed.

But if we are seeing all these stories that are going from Dangote to the government to this and that, they’re just like whistling in the dark. How would you support it? We are more confused. They have listened, and they said they want to do something and find some solutions, and one of the major solutions is the issue of crude oil. It’s confusing. Something is not right.

Lagos is a melting pot like New York City in the United States. We don’t discriminate against tribes. We accept everybody who comes to Lagos… it is the centre of commerce in this country.

You said at a time that Nigerians should give President Tinubu more time but the same President and his people have started preparing for the 2027 elections. Why should Nigerians give him more time, when he is already preparing for a second term? Also,  what is your reaction to the ethnic rhetoric and baiting that is going on in Lagos?

Maybe, you didn’t quite understand my comments when I said, look, let’s give him that time. The first year in office; he had to get himself prepared. He had never worked in the villa.

He had never worked at that national level. Give him that one year; that’s what I said. That first year is a learning curve. And I said to them, after May 29, 2024, he has no excuse anymore. Please don’t throw him under the bus because of the first year. Now we’re in the second year. All the experiences he needed to have, he must have gotten.

So, what is he doing from May 29, 2024, to the future? This is why we are all coming outside  now to say he has learnt enough. The first year was a learning curve and I said people don’t start firing at him. Let’s give him that time to learn. Fortunately, Buhari’s tenure too cannot be divorced from what is going on now. You know, because it’s the same party.

So, they have the same policies. People are now trying to separate his administration from General Buhari’s administration. It’s impossible. I just said give him that leeway, that one year, to learn how things work at the national level becuae Lagos is not Abuja. And of course, in one year, he should have learnt more than enough.

So, from now on, maybe, he won’t be able to spread all his tentacles all over for people to input towards his final decision-making. I didn’t say give him time perpetually. For the situation in Lagos; I want to be very candid here. When I hear people talk about Igbos are not wanted, I get worried. As I said earlier, Lagos is a melting pot like New York City in the United States.

We don’t discriminate against tribes. We accept everybody who comes to Lagos. Once you have your goods to sell, it is the centre of commerce in this country, not only in this country, in the whole of West Africa. When I hear people who came into Lagos telling Igbos, you should get out, it’s utter nonsense. We don’t do that here. We don’t send people out, we accept them. We encourage them.